Need help choosing some parts

[insanewayne]

In advance, I just want to say thanks to anyone who takes the time to read this and help me, it's greatly appreciated!!!

Ok, so my engine is in the shop getting checked for specs, magnafluxed etc.

I have some choices to make about internals/parts.

My goals are ten's. I will be running a SCM-6152E, 25 psi on the street, and 32+ on race gas.

It will be a daily driver (no comments on this please ). Therefore I need some helps choosing the following parts.

Pistons - Ross or Wiseco...8.5:1 vs 8.3:1 doesn't really matter to me. I wanted ross, but I've heard that the wiseco's have some kinda cut on the bottoms that make them friendlier for daily use. At the same time I've also heard some thing about the #1 cyl wall cracking, and the only relation with the motors was the wiseco's. And I think the Wiseco's come with the 4mm offset pins, and the ross's dont come standard with that.

Rods - Crower or Pauter.. Pauter is more expensive, but I figure well I'm spending 700$ for crowers, I might as well spend 75$ more for the pauters. My thoughts here is that the pauter's are heavy ass son's of bitches...does my setup merrit them? Also my machinist mentioned that if I'm going to be taking my engine above 8500rpm (which I will when racing, but no higher then 9, probably shift between 8500 and 9) that I shouldn't use a steel rod. They don't absorb the shock at those rpm's like an aluminum rod does. The Aluminum actually acts sorta like a sponge, compressing and expanding slightly during stress. Then we get into street driving on aluminum rods, and replacing the bolts from the higher heat expansion of aluminum compared to the botls and it stretching the botls over time. I'm not giong there. So basically, has anyone had any probs revving steel rods that high? I don't think so because I doubt even that RPM puts enough load on the steel rods to exceed the value (forget the proper name for it) where they begin to wear. So basically, I'm stuck between the crower and pauter's. I was looking at this http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PAUTE...spagenameZWDVW . ( He offers the 6 bolts for my application as well)

Vavles - I've heard alot of people recommending OEM valves. I know Evil~Eagle ran a 10 on them, and I think he was still running them when he broke into the 9's. I was looking at a few options. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FERRE...QQcmdZViewItem and then there's these. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MITSU...QQcmdZViewItem I emailed the guy, seems pretty legit....but I'm still weary. The deal is nice, but if a valve lets go, I'm looking at potentially losing a ####load of money, but, those are a damn good deal and with the bronze valve guides, which I was also wondering, are they a pretty good idea to get? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ferre...QQcmdZViewItem

I've decided on new OEM main bolts. Many have gone very fast on them, and it would save me alot of money and hassle and worry not having to go ARP.

And finally I was thinking of going with the FP dual springs, but after researching I think I'll be plenty fine with some crowers. Feedback?

Thank again to anyone who can help me out here, you time and advice is greatly appreciated.

 

[brute]

Eagle rods are about half the price of Pauter or Crower.

0.2 difference in compression is not going to make a difference.

I suggest OEM valves, and definitely ARP hardware.

 

[FORMONTOYA]

I don't have experience with the level you're shooting for, but for the race gas boost you're shooting for, ARPs for head, rod, and main would be a "no-brainer" must have.


my 0.02

 

[insanewayne]

Umm, yes, I have the ARP Head studs, and all the rods come with them from the manufacturer. Maybe I wasn't clear, but the only bolts I mentioned where the mains, because ARP's for the rest are, yes, a "no-brainer". I will use the new, stock OEM's bolts for the mains, instead of having to get ARP's, the dowel kit, the machining etc. I had a discussion about ARP main's with my machinist, and cap walking and the torque not even putting enough load on them to stretch into yeild, and the material being stronger then the block etc...all sorts of potential complications. Basically If I can go without the hassle, why not? Haven't some big names gone sub ten's on stock mains? I could be wrong, so if anyone has some knowledge or feedback there as well, then it's all appreciated.

And yes, the .2 in compression is barely going to make a difference, hence why I said it doesn't matter to me. I'm more worried about each brands Daily Driven performance and longevity/wear. I will always let the engine warm up first before getting on it. I'm not a noob here guys, just need a lil better educated then myself type advice from some experienced people.

 

[brute]

It just seems like one of those preventative maintenance type things to me. Wouldn't it suck if you got your $5000 motor ruined by a main bolt breaking when you could've gotten the $60 ARP's? It's one less thing to worry about. And you most likely have to buy new mains anyway, so why not pay a little extra for ARP's?

The fact that someone has done it doesn't necessarily make it a good idea. Sure you can build your head to rev super high, but how long do you think your motor will last with 25+ psi and 11k rpm shifts daily? You don't always have to push the limits of everything. Just build up a stout little motor so you can give it some abuse, but it'll still last you a while.

 

[drivemusicnow]

It just seems like one of those preventative maintenance type things to me. Wouldn't it suck if you got your $5000 motor ruined by a main bolt breaking when you could've gotten the $60 ARP's? It's one less thing to worry about. And you most likely have to buy new mains anyway, so why not pay a little extra for ARP's?

The fact that someone has done it doesn't necessarily make it a good idea. Sure you can build your head to rev super high, but how long do you think your motor will last with 25+ psi and 11k rpm shifts daily? You don't always have to push the limits of everything. Just build up a stout little motor so you can give it some abuse, but it'll still last you a while.

My reasoning for doing the same (arp head and rod, new OEM mains) was that when is the last time you've heard of someone have a main break?






Never. And the cost of installing ARP main studs is much more than 60$ as you would need to align hone the main caps. Not worth it to me for something that doesn't NEED to be replaced. Now, he is also shooting for a lot more power than I am, but the logic is the same.


As far as your other components: Why betweenthe cheap wiseco and cheap Ross?? as far as I was aware, those are the cheapest two options for pistons, and not neccesarily good for 600+ hp. I personally chose JE pistons, however you might be better with one of the coated Ross's or a coated JE. The wisecos have a high silicon content that makes the fracture (ie dozens of pieces) when you detonate, where as the JEs tend to stay together in 1 peice. This means replacing 1 piston, and 1 cylinders valves/rings versus your entire motor.

Between pauter and crower I'd choose Pauter, however given the price range, I would almost always pick the Oliver rod over those two.

Before you decide on any of this, you should talk to whoever is doing your machining/building and figure out what they're more comfortable with, and what they prefer. I'd rather make my machinist happy by spending a few more $$$ on his preferred piston, than saving those few dollars on a part that most likely won't perform any differently. But that's just me.

 

[insanewayne]

I wanted ross to begin with, but I was reading about wiseco having better street features, but I didn't want them for the reasons you stated. The high silicon content also makes them expand less = tighter tolerances = less slap....but given that I'm trying to build a 10 sec car that I can still have fun with a few times a week, I don't think they're what I need.

I've never heard of ross being a cheap piston, I've always heard good things about them.

The link I posted with the link for the pauter wiseco combo, is also available with ross pistons as well.

And yes, there is much more then 60$ into the ARP's, the CRCO dowel kit, machining those in, the align hone...adds up real fast, I think I'm fine with the stock mains.

Oliver says the max their rod should be revved to is 7400rpm on there site. Now this might be with V8's and the lower r/s ratios in mind, but I dunno. I know the crowers are widely used in the DSM world, with great results.

I appreciate your comments Greg.