Oil in Exhaust Port After New Head Install

[mjboehm]

When I had the head off last time I looked at the cylinder walls there was no scaring. The bottom end only has around 400 miles on it. Thats the funny thing this car never smoked until I had a turbo go bad.

 

[Calan]

this has been covered before... there are oil galleys where some of the exhaust studs are

True, but not on every port and not that much. And there wouldn't be oil IN the ports.

That is alot of oil to be coming from the head gasket and whats more it wouldn't be just oil. Coolant would also be leaking.

Not necessarily. Depends on where the HG failure is.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/336535-do-you-have-blown-head-gasket.html

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Have to agree with Romeen, TSIFreek and the other guys: I think something's wrong with the valve guides and/or seals.

 

[defrag010]

There is nothing wrong with the guides or seals, that is way too much oil to make its way past the stem seals while running for such a small amount of time. There is a problem with that head casting.. I'd put my money on a crack somewhere. Did your head builder pressure test the head?

Stem seals are nothing but an oil metering device designed to only let a specified amount (set by the fit of the steal to the stem) of oil past it to lubricate the stem. The thing is, even without the seal the oil flow is still restricted by the amount of guide clearance. Now, keep in mind that the oil inside the head isn't pressurized. The only time oil will gather in the guide clearance excessively is when the head is holding oil to where the level of standing oil in the head is up past the top of the valve guide. This is usually only happens at sustained high rpm, or if your engine design has small drainback holes in the head (big block chevy comes to mind).
So, you have gravity and a tiny bit of crankcase pressure which are the only forces that are trying to pull the splashed oil down the valve guide and into the port. Guide clearances on small valve stuff like this never exceed .002" with ideal clearance being about .0012"-.0015". Without a stem seal, there is not alot of oil that will get past that .002" without pressure. In fact, many OEM engines run without stem seals at all. Buick GN turbos did not have stem seals on exhaust valves from the factory. Many diesel engines have no stem seals from the factory. Most racing engines use no stem seals. Older engines used umbrella seals which did nothing but hang on the valve stem and ride up and down with it while the drape part of the seal kept excessive splash oil away from the top of the guide. Basically, if your guide clearance was set right, you can run no stem seals and you would have a hard time even noticing that they weren't on there. High vacuum on the intake side (engine braking) will pull oil through the intake guides, but the only thing you would notice is just a small bit of white smoke only during engine braking.

OP: if you can't find the source of oil and the problem doesn't fix itself, you are going to need to take the head off and have it checked out.

Two other things that could cause this are cracked guide bosses which are actually quite common if there is too much press fit when new guides are installed, and too little guide press fit to where the guide actually rides up and down inside the head casting causing alot of oil to get into the port.

 

[Calan]

...There is a problem with that head casting.. I'd put my money on a crack somewhere. Did your head builder pressure test the head?

But a crack that lets oil into all four exhaust ports?

And... good question.

Two other things that could cause this are cracked guide bosses which are actually quite common if there is too much press fit when new guides are installed, and too little guide press fit to where the guide actually rides up and down inside the head casting causing alot of oil to get into the port.

Yeah. I wasn't referring to the seals or guides themselves per se, but something in the way they are installed...or missing... or...

 

[defrag010]

What I would do is clean the exhaust ports thoroughly, keep the turbo manifold off, take the plugs out, unhook the injectors and coils, and crank the motor for about 10 seconds so it builds oil pressure and you can look to see where the oil shows up in the ports.

 

[mjboehm]

I will look at that tonight didn't get to do a leak down test last night bc of rain. Also this is like second head that I put on this car and doing the same thing. Last head I put on the guides and valve seals were no good after having a basic head job done. I will keep you updated.

Alright did leak down test ( have to get new fitting for my air hose) I had to hold the hose on. So the readings weren't right. Turned the engine over for 30-45 seconds no oil. I had air go through the dipstick,intake, and exhaust and raditor cap. So I am going to redo this.

 

[mjboehm]

Is it possible that I am getting to much oil pressure? The oil pump(stock) is new.

 

[TSIfreek]

Is it possible that I am getting to much oil pressure? The oil pump(stock) is new.

Your oil pressure should have nothing to do with your problem. If you have to much oil pressure you would see oil leaking out of every gasket as the pressure is so high they cant hold it in. The valve guides get there oil from splash from the cams and springs.
What PCV do you have??. As if its stuck open oil will get sucked into the intake as well but the amount in the picture looks like its more of an internal engine problem.

 

[mjboehm]

The pvc valve is a oem one from Mitsu. It is brand new so I don't think that is the problem. I am not really sure what to do next. I am thinking about the head off the car again to see if that is the problem.

 

[Spoolin4Ever]

The pvc valve is a oem one from Mitsu. It is brand new so I don't think that is the problem. I am not really sure what to do next. I am thinking about the head off the car again to see if that is the problem.

Who built the last head you said you had done? Same person or different? What happened to that head, is this the same one redone or what? Seems like you've been having some tough luck.

 

[mjboehm]

Well I had a different person rebuild this head. It is the same head that I took off the car with all new parts. I know this is an on going question should I use copper spray on the oem gasket or not?

 

[BogusSVO]

no copper spray on a composite gasket

 

[mjboehm]

Only reason I asked people have done it with using arp head studs. I will put it on without it then.

 

[TSIfreek]

What did you find when you pulled the head off this time???

 

[wont_luz]

If it's the same head with different/new guides/seals and parts in it, you could have a cracked head. Happened on a neon I built once, except it leaked coolant, and it was right out one of the exhaust runners.

 

[mjboehm]

Finally pulled the head. I noticed that there was oil on top on the block and bottom of the head gasket. no coolant (none in car). The head gasket was stuck to the bottom of the head b/c of the copper spray. So I am taking that the headgasket didn't seal Correct.

 

[sawnuoff]

Well I have used copper spray on every OEM style composite gasket and never had any problems of oil leaking past it like that. I think the head should have the seals double checked to make sure they are still in place. Thats alot of oil in the ports. Were all the ports filled like that or just the one in the pictures?

 

[mjboehm]

There was in the layers of the headgasket. There was oil on the valve face. The valve guide seals look good no cuts or anything.

 

[rEclipserGST]

Is your turbo seals in good shape?? Just something to think about. Other than that, I think your on the right track with the head gasket. Fix that & let us know.

 

[mjboehm]

The turbo is new. I will keep everyone updated.thanks for the help.

 

[sawnuoff]

Wheres the update on the thread? Sure would like to know what ever come of this.

 

[mjboehm]

Well been really bust at worked. I did get the head back and timing belt. I have to finish putting the rest of the stuff back on the car. Will let everyone know when I start the car again should be in a few days or so. Well started the car this past weekend and still does the same thing. So I took off the the o2 housing and noticed the back of the turbo was cover in oil. So I think the turbo is no good. I took off the turbo and took it apart and noticed that there was oil all inside of exhaust housing so I think this is my problem. Plus the o2 housing and down pipe are full of oil.
Any more suggestions.

 

[mjboehm]

Well started the car this past weekend and still does the same thing. So I took off the the o2 housing and noticed the back of the turbo was cover in oil. So I think the turbo is no good. I took off the turbo and took it apart and noticed that there was oil all inside of exhaust housing so I think this is my problem. Plus the o2 housing and down pipe are full of oil.
Any more suggestions.

 

[mnetwork]

Well started the car this past weekend and still does the same thing. So I took off the the o2 housing and noticed the back of the turbo was cover in oil. So I think the turbo is no good. I took off the turbo and took it apart and noticed that there was oil all inside of exhaust housing so I think this is my problem. Plus the o2 housing and down pipe are full of oil.
Any more suggestions.

Oil is coming out of the exaust port so I would expect the turbo and exhaust to have oil on them... You could do a boost leak test and see if air really gets through the seals in the turbo.

 

[mjboehm]

Well I took the turbo apart yesterday and there was oil under tha cap of the exhaust wheel was full of oil and there wasn't that much in the center catridge. Well I started the car without the turbo on the car and it didn't smoke after I cleaned the exhaust ports. There was more oil on the top of the turbo and bottom part of the turbo manifold than there was on the exhaust runners in the manifold